I have a very large class at the end of the week, about 20 people crammed together in a small room in the corner of the school. The students have been changing quite a bit. When 5 of them move on, 5 more arrive.
We talked about dating, relationships and marriage in class today. Going into class, I was somewhat relieved, because for the first three classes I'd had a brother-sister pair who were in their early teens, and I thought the subject might be a little adult for them. Luckily, they'd recently gone home, so I thought I would avoid that situation.
So of course, when I walked in today, I saw there were five new students in the classroom, and one of them was sitting in the front row, and she was very young, that is, at least for this classroom of mostly 20 and 30 year old's. She later told us she was 12. I had taught a 10 year old boy the summer before, so I was used to the occasional middle school student learning with people mostly two, three, and even five times their age (ah language, the great equalizer), but that's different from a group discussion. Especially about dating, love, marriage, relationships, and all that jazz. Then again, she was very mature for her age, and surprised us all with her occasional thoughtful, relevant and cogent contributions to the conversation. She was perhaps more well-spoken and reasonable than anyone else in the room, and she had some grand competition.
Along with the mix of 20 and 30 something's I'm used to just about every day of work, there were about five 16- and 17-year old's. Some of them hadn't any dating experience, and some of them had very impressive yet still very young romantic careers. (Did you know that you can get arrested in Tunisia for kissing in public? Would you imagine that most police will offer to be your friend online after trying to scare you for several hours of intimidating questioning? The world is always challenging love, yet I think that's made love incredibly stronger)
The long and short of it is that the class went well enough, the students talked a lot, which is always good, and there wasn't anything particularly offensive said (that is, of which I'm aware... you never know with so many cultures and individuals in one room, and all sorts of language and communication barriers).
I think the only controversial moment came when a pair of students on opposite sides of the horizontal room got into a heated debate about who should pay on the first date. To be honest, I must say I am not really sure exactly what their positions were. The man had suggested offering to pay and then expecting them to try to refuse the offer and then insisting and ultimately paying, or perhaps offering to pay and then cleverly suggesting that the "next time" (i.e. second date) the woman could pay. That seemed to rouse the woman on the other side of the room, who made it clear that a man should definitely pay on the first date to show that he cares about her and that he's not cheap, but that in general, she can pay for herself because she's independent and doesn't need any man's (expletive) money. I think some personal experiences were being vented in the midst of this minor debate. Even so, they kept walking circles while going toe to toe, and most of us in the class were amused and confused by their ever-changing arguments.
Eventually I piped in with something about a free activity on the first date so as to avoid confusion, but they ignored me. Then the woman claimed that the man should pay because women are paid less. The one with more money should pay, and therefore, that's the man. Before I bring up how I stepped into the conversation, I should mention that I enjoy this student and have taught her in different classes for several months. But she doesn't always make sense.
When I started to respond to her claim, a male student in the front row said, "No, it's true. Women really are paid less than men for the same work..." while everyone else was yelling. I told him I was very much aware of that, and if you, the reader, are not, you should be. In the US, the most recent study shows that women are paid 78 cents on the dollar for doing the same job as men. But that doesn't mean that every man who goes on a date with a woman automatically makes more money than she does. Especially in a place like New York City. I tried to point this out, and she said, "You don't know what it's like to be a woman!"
To which I replied, "You're right. Of course I don't. But you also don't know what it's like to be a man. And I don't know what it's like to be anyone but myself, and you don't know what it's like to be anyone but yourself, because you're a unique individual with your own experience of life. You don't know what it's like to be a woman from Congo or Japan or Tunisia, or a man from Spain or the US or Brazil. You don't know what it's like to be an animal, or your own mother, or best friend. You may be able to share better understandings with people with whom you also share some sort of demographic connection, but when it comes down to one-on-one experiences of life, everyone has been traveling a separate journey. One might have it better than the other, but something as large as sex or race or religion or location or your number one fascination are each one factor of many that affect whether or not one enjoys one's life." Most of the women said they respected honesty, so to be honest, I actually did say all of that up to the "best friend" part and then some more about everyone being on their own adventure, but the rest I added just now because I can say it to you.
I felt I needed to say that because she had been saying things like, "Women want stability, so when a man pays she knows that he's confident enough." A younger woman said, "But you're 30 years old! You're not speaking for younger women who might want the exact opposite!" And she's engaged. I also didn't understand why she thought she could speak for other individuals about what they wanted.
When she brought up that paying on the first date exhibits confidence, I asked her if there weren't plenty of other opportunities for a man to demonstrate his confidence during a date, to which she conceded. Nobody actually got angry, which, in this kind of territory, could easily happen. Afterward she said that the first date should probably be some fun free activity that involves walking anyway. If only people would listen to me (when I'm right). I should speak up more.
Speaking of which, I want to go on the record as completely supporting any equal rights legislation, but that's a different thing from two people getting to know each other. Besides, the first date shouldn't be that expensive anyway, so either person should be capable of covering the check with a single piece of paper.
When I could finally give my two cents on the "who pays" non-issue to the class, I said that you should treat the situation like you would with any individual: be generous. When with a friend, male or female, we usually get separate checks, but if I haven't seen the friend in a while, or if it's a special occasion for some reason, then sometimes we both feel obligated to offer to pay. I know this, because ever since I started traveling, much more often than not, the friend I'm with has more money, and either tries to be kind to me by offering to pay, or playfully, supposedly, emasculate me. Now that I'm not the "weary traveler," I've been able to stand my ground on that issue much more lately, although I usually cook with friends more than going out to eat anyway.
I really think the generosity aspect is important here, that is, if you want to date someone generous, so I would think it would be just fine for either to offer to pay. If either of them insists on paying for themselves, then they should. If the recipient of the offer to pay is offended that the one making the offer would ever think of breaking from whatever tradition the former person was raised with by actually offering to do something nice for them, then they should get with the 21st century and just go with it. The last thing I am thinking about on a date is who makes more money. If the date went well I would continue to work on ways to make enough money to make her journey more joyful, but I'm doing that anyway for myself, and hope to continue to improve in many ways.
I prefer to work hard, be creative, challenge myself and share joys with others. If someone else wants to pay for me, they can, and if I can pay for someone else, I would like to. That sums it up.
I thought dating was about enjoying the discovery of your similarities which strengthen your bond and make you feel less alone in the world, and your exciting differences that help you complement each other and expand your understanding, enjoyment and love. And of course, the possibility of pleasing each other with affection. But perhaps I was supposed to be thinking about money the whole time...
I just read this again, and had another thought. 1 of the most valuable gifts of dating is learning more about being a man and/or a woman, whether you're a woman or a man and dating a man or a woman, and you can interpret that any way you like, just like the rest of your life, as do all of us who are alive and play for love
We talked about dating, relationships and marriage in class today. Going into class, I was somewhat relieved, because for the first three classes I'd had a brother-sister pair who were in their early teens, and I thought the subject might be a little adult for them. Luckily, they'd recently gone home, so I thought I would avoid that situation.
So of course, when I walked in today, I saw there were five new students in the classroom, and one of them was sitting in the front row, and she was very young, that is, at least for this classroom of mostly 20 and 30 year old's. She later told us she was 12. I had taught a 10 year old boy the summer before, so I was used to the occasional middle school student learning with people mostly two, three, and even five times their age (ah language, the great equalizer), but that's different from a group discussion. Especially about dating, love, marriage, relationships, and all that jazz. Then again, she was very mature for her age, and surprised us all with her occasional thoughtful, relevant and cogent contributions to the conversation. She was perhaps more well-spoken and reasonable than anyone else in the room, and she had some grand competition.
Along with the mix of 20 and 30 something's I'm used to just about every day of work, there were about five 16- and 17-year old's. Some of them hadn't any dating experience, and some of them had very impressive yet still very young romantic careers. (Did you know that you can get arrested in Tunisia for kissing in public? Would you imagine that most police will offer to be your friend online after trying to scare you for several hours of intimidating questioning? The world is always challenging love, yet I think that's made love incredibly stronger)
The long and short of it is that the class went well enough, the students talked a lot, which is always good, and there wasn't anything particularly offensive said (that is, of which I'm aware... you never know with so many cultures and individuals in one room, and all sorts of language and communication barriers).
I think the only controversial moment came when a pair of students on opposite sides of the horizontal room got into a heated debate about who should pay on the first date. To be honest, I must say I am not really sure exactly what their positions were. The man had suggested offering to pay and then expecting them to try to refuse the offer and then insisting and ultimately paying, or perhaps offering to pay and then cleverly suggesting that the "next time" (i.e. second date) the woman could pay. That seemed to rouse the woman on the other side of the room, who made it clear that a man should definitely pay on the first date to show that he cares about her and that he's not cheap, but that in general, she can pay for herself because she's independent and doesn't need any man's (expletive) money. I think some personal experiences were being vented in the midst of this minor debate. Even so, they kept walking circles while going toe to toe, and most of us in the class were amused and confused by their ever-changing arguments.
Eventually I piped in with something about a free activity on the first date so as to avoid confusion, but they ignored me. Then the woman claimed that the man should pay because women are paid less. The one with more money should pay, and therefore, that's the man. Before I bring up how I stepped into the conversation, I should mention that I enjoy this student and have taught her in different classes for several months. But she doesn't always make sense.
When I started to respond to her claim, a male student in the front row said, "No, it's true. Women really are paid less than men for the same work..." while everyone else was yelling. I told him I was very much aware of that, and if you, the reader, are not, you should be. In the US, the most recent study shows that women are paid 78 cents on the dollar for doing the same job as men. But that doesn't mean that every man who goes on a date with a woman automatically makes more money than she does. Especially in a place like New York City. I tried to point this out, and she said, "You don't know what it's like to be a woman!"
To which I replied, "You're right. Of course I don't. But you also don't know what it's like to be a man. And I don't know what it's like to be anyone but myself, and you don't know what it's like to be anyone but yourself, because you're a unique individual with your own experience of life. You don't know what it's like to be a woman from Congo or Japan or Tunisia, or a man from Spain or the US or Brazil. You don't know what it's like to be an animal, or your own mother, or best friend. You may be able to share better understandings with people with whom you also share some sort of demographic connection, but when it comes down to one-on-one experiences of life, everyone has been traveling a separate journey. One might have it better than the other, but something as large as sex or race or religion or location or your number one fascination are each one factor of many that affect whether or not one enjoys one's life." Most of the women said they respected honesty, so to be honest, I actually did say all of that up to the "best friend" part and then some more about everyone being on their own adventure, but the rest I added just now because I can say it to you.
I felt I needed to say that because she had been saying things like, "Women want stability, so when a man pays she knows that he's confident enough." A younger woman said, "But you're 30 years old! You're not speaking for younger women who might want the exact opposite!" And she's engaged. I also didn't understand why she thought she could speak for other individuals about what they wanted.
When she brought up that paying on the first date exhibits confidence, I asked her if there weren't plenty of other opportunities for a man to demonstrate his confidence during a date, to which she conceded. Nobody actually got angry, which, in this kind of territory, could easily happen. Afterward she said that the first date should probably be some fun free activity that involves walking anyway. If only people would listen to me (when I'm right). I should speak up more.
Speaking of which, I want to go on the record as completely supporting any equal rights legislation, but that's a different thing from two people getting to know each other. Besides, the first date shouldn't be that expensive anyway, so either person should be capable of covering the check with a single piece of paper.
When I could finally give my two cents on the "who pays" non-issue to the class, I said that you should treat the situation like you would with any individual: be generous. When with a friend, male or female, we usually get separate checks, but if I haven't seen the friend in a while, or if it's a special occasion for some reason, then sometimes we both feel obligated to offer to pay. I know this, because ever since I started traveling, much more often than not, the friend I'm with has more money, and either tries to be kind to me by offering to pay, or playfully, supposedly, emasculate me. Now that I'm not the "weary traveler," I've been able to stand my ground on that issue much more lately, although I usually cook with friends more than going out to eat anyway.
I really think the generosity aspect is important here, that is, if you want to date someone generous, so I would think it would be just fine for either to offer to pay. If either of them insists on paying for themselves, then they should. If the recipient of the offer to pay is offended that the one making the offer would ever think of breaking from whatever tradition the former person was raised with by actually offering to do something nice for them, then they should get with the 21st century and just go with it. The last thing I am thinking about on a date is who makes more money. If the date went well I would continue to work on ways to make enough money to make her journey more joyful, but I'm doing that anyway for myself, and hope to continue to improve in many ways.
I prefer to work hard, be creative, challenge myself and share joys with others. If someone else wants to pay for me, they can, and if I can pay for someone else, I would like to. That sums it up.
I thought dating was about enjoying the discovery of your similarities which strengthen your bond and make you feel less alone in the world, and your exciting differences that help you complement each other and expand your understanding, enjoyment and love. And of course, the possibility of pleasing each other with affection. But perhaps I was supposed to be thinking about money the whole time...
I just read this again, and had another thought. 1 of the most valuable gifts of dating is learning more about being a man and/or a woman, whether you're a woman or a man and dating a man or a woman, and you can interpret that any way you like, just like the rest of your life, as do all of us who are alive and play for love
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